RCM appears to be the culprit for non-delivery of some emails to GMail addresses

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RCM appears to be the culprit for non-delivery of some emails to GMail addresses

Philip Rhoades-2
People,

This is my setup:

Fedora 28 x86_64 workstation + Firefox <=> Fedora 26 x86_64 Server + RCM
+ QMail + multiple domains <=> Internet

I have multiple email addresses for the multiple domains I run web sites
and mailing lists for - last night when I mailed to someone from phr AT
philiprhoades DOT org to a their GMail address - the mail was not
delivered.  I went through a bit of debugging with the recipient today
and what I know so far is:

- If I use RCM and the phr email address to send mail - even though the
QMail logs say that the mail was successfully delivered - it never
actually arrives - BUT no bounce message is ever received either.

- If I use swaks on the server to send a test email from the phr address
to the same person, it is delivered OK.

- If I use qmail-inject on the server to send the original email that
failed from its Maildir Sent dir to the same person, it is delivered OK.

So it looks like something that RCM is adding to the headers is being
objected to by the GMail servers or something - of course since nothing
is ever actually delivered or bounced, I can't compare the header lines
of the failed emails to the successful emails so I can't make any more
progress trying to work out what the problem is.

I have occasionally had rDNS issues but my diagnostics don't seem to fit
that non-delivery issue . . anyone got any ideas?  Is it possible that
GMail servers can successfully accept emails but then silently fail to
deliver them to recipients?

Thanks,

Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra  NSW  2794
Australia
E-mail:  [hidden email]
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Re: RCM appears to be the culprit for non-delivery of some emails to GMail addresses

Philip Rhoades-2
Reindl,


On 2018-09-03 18:43, Reindl Harald wrote:

> Am 03.09.18 um 10:16 schrieb Philip Rhoades:
>> So it looks like something that RCM is adding to the headers is being
>> objected to by the GMail servers or something - of course since
>> nothing
>> is ever actually delivered or bounced, I can't compare the header
>> lines
>> of the failed emails to the successful emails so I can't make any more
>> progress trying to work out what the problem is.
>
> no idea about qmail (who uses such a completly unmaintained peice of
> software in 2018) but with postfix it's easy to get a BCC of submited
> messages
>
> main.cf:
> header_checks = pcre:/etc/postfix/header_checks_smtpd.cf
>
> header_checks_smtpd.cf:
> /^header-regex/ BCC [hidden email]


That does not help - as I said - I HAVE the original sent mail in the
Maildir folder - I don't need a BCC . . you misunderstood and snipped
out the relevant information . .

P.
--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra  NSW  2794
Australia
E-mail:  [hidden email]
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: RCM appears to be the culprit for non-delivery of some emails to GMail addresses

Vincent Van Houtte
In reply to this post by Philip Rhoades-2
Hi,

Something seems off, and I would not suspect RC as the first culprit:
* PEBKAC: if the receiver has set up rules to move certain emails to a
folder that (s)he didn't check
* PEBKAC: if the email is in a junkmail folder that wasn't checked
* Qmail bug? Maybe increase log level?
* Other bug? At my wife's office, we hit an Evolution bug last year that
was known for many years, but apparently nobody cared enough to fix it
until we were hit - the client reported that sending had succeeded, but
exim never actually sent the email...

In general, I don't believe Gmail would reject email and not warn either
the sender or the recipient. Did you try the Gmail support form?
https://support.google.com/mail/troubleshooter/2920052?hl=en

If you want, I can give you my gmail.com address (off-list) so you can
send a few testmails to me. I have 0 mail rules set up and know how to
check a junkmail folder, so if that can help you solve the issue, I'd be
more than happy to report to you what I did and did not receive.

Kr,
Vincent


On 2018-09-03 10:16, Philip Rhoades wrote:

> People,
>
> This is my setup:
>
> Fedora 28 x86_64 workstation + Firefox <=> Fedora 26 x86_64 Server +
> RCM + QMail + multiple domains <=> Internet
>
> I have multiple email addresses for the multiple domains I run web
> sites and mailing lists for - last night when I mailed to someone from
> phr AT philiprhoades DOT org to a their GMail address - the mail was
> not delivered.  I went through a bit of debugging with the recipient
> today and what I know so far is:
>
> - If I use RCM and the phr email address to send mail - even though
> the QMail logs say that the mail was successfully delivered - it never
> actually arrives - BUT no bounce message is ever received either.
>
> - If I use swaks on the server to send a test email from the phr
> address to the same person, it is delivered OK.
>
> - If I use qmail-inject on the server to send the original email that
> failed from its Maildir Sent dir to the same person, it is delivered
> OK.
>
> So it looks like something that RCM is adding to the headers is being
> objected to by the GMail servers or something - of course since
> nothing is ever actually delivered or bounced, I can't compare the
> header lines of the failed emails to the successful emails so I can't
> make any more progress trying to work out what the problem is.
>
> I have occasionally had rDNS issues but my diagnostics don't seem to
> fit that non-delivery issue . . anyone got any ideas?  Is it possible
> that GMail servers can successfully accept emails but then silently
> fail to deliver them to recipients?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Phil.

Vincent Van Houtte
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Re: RCM appears to be the culprit for non-delivery of some emails to GMail addresses

Philip Rhoades-2
In reply to this post by Philip Rhoades-2
Reindl,


On 2018-09-04 00:49, Reindl Harald wrote:

> Am 03.09.18 um 16:29 schrieb Philip Rhoades:
>> On 2018-09-03 18:43, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>> Am 03.09.18 um 10:16 schrieb Philip Rhoades:
>>>> So it looks like something that RCM is adding to the headers is
>>>> being
>>>> objected to by the GMail servers or something - of course since
>>>> nothing
>>>> is ever actually delivered or bounced, I can't compare the header
>>>> lines
>>>> of the failed emails to the successful emails so I can't make any
>>>> more
>>>> progress trying to work out what the problem is.
>>>
>>> no idea about qmail (who uses such a completly unmaintained peice of
>>> software in 2018) but with postfix it's easy to get a BCC of submited
>>> messages
>>>
>>> main.cf:
>>> header_checks = pcre:/etc/postfix/header_checks_smtpd.cf
>>>
>>> header_checks_smtpd.cf:
>>> /^header-regex/ BCC [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> That does not help - as I said - I HAVE the original sent mail in the
>> Maildir folder - I don't need a BCC . . you misunderstood and snipped
>> out the relevant information
>
> you said "of course since nothing is ever actually delivered or
> bounced,
> I can't compare the header lines of the failed emails to the successful
> emails"
>
> so when you say you can't compare WHY when you have it?


You are still misunderstanding - the mail has header lines that were
included by RCM and the local server - so that mail, stored in the Sent
folder, can easily be resent manually - which works.  The problem is
that because the mails that are sent unsuccessfully by RCM directly, and
appear to reach the GMail server and then disappear - we never see the
header lines that would be added by the GMail server(s) - so we can't
compare them to the mails that are resent manually and successfully.

P.
--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra  NSW  2794
Australia
E-mail:  [hidden email]
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: RCM appears to be the culprit for non-delivery of some emails to GMail addresses

Jeff Ross
In reply to this post by Vincent Van Houtte

On 9/3/18 9:27 AM, Vincent Van Houtte wrote:

Hi,

Something seems off, and I would not suspect RC as the first culprit:
* PEBKAC: if the receiver has set up rules to move certain emails to a folder that (s)he didn't check
* PEBKAC: if the email is in a junkmail folder that wasn't checked
* Qmail bug? Maybe increase log level?
* Other bug? At my wife's office, we hit an Evolution bug last year that was known for many years, but apparently nobody cared enough to fix it until we were hit - the client reported that sending had succeeded, but exim never actually sent the email...

In general, I don't believe Gmail would reject email and not warn either the sender or the recipient. Did you try the Gmail support form? https://support.google.com/mail/troubleshooter/2920052?hl=en

This is simply not true.  Gmail absolutely drops mail after accepting it from my server.  Worse, it appears to be completely random so most of the time e-mail that Gmail accepts is delivered.  My hunch is that different servers in their mail pool are configured slightly differently or their internal routing after delivery is wonky.  I have RC installed but only one client of mine actually uses it, so I don't think this is a RC problem either.

Good luck with getting any support from Gmail.  You get what you pay for with a gmail account.

Jeff
If you want, I can give you my gmail.com address (off-list) so you can send a few testmails to me. I have 0 mail rules set up and know how to check a junkmail folder, so if that can help you solve the issue, I'd be more than happy to report to you what I did and did not receive.

Kr,
Vincent


On 2018-09-03 10:16, Philip Rhoades wrote:
People,

This is my setup:

Fedora 28 x86_64 workstation + Firefox <=> Fedora 26 x86_64 Server +
RCM + QMail + multiple domains <=> Internet

I have multiple email addresses for the multiple domains I run web
sites and mailing lists for - last night when I mailed to someone from
phr AT philiprhoades DOT org to a their GMail address - the mail was
not delivered.  I went through a bit of debugging with the recipient
today and what I know so far is:

- If I use RCM and the phr email address to send mail - even though
the QMail logs say that the mail was successfully delivered - it never
actually arrives - BUT no bounce message is ever received either.

- If I use swaks on the server to send a test email from the phr
address to the same person, it is delivered OK.

- If I use qmail-inject on the server to send the original email that
failed from its Maildir Sent dir to the same person, it is delivered
OK.

So it looks like something that RCM is adding to the headers is being
objected to by the GMail servers or something - of course since
nothing is ever actually delivered or bounced, I can't compare the
header lines of the failed emails to the successful emails so I can't
make any more progress trying to work out what the problem is.

I have occasionally had rDNS issues but my diagnostics don't seem to
fit that non-delivery issue . . anyone got any ideas?  Is it possible
that GMail servers can successfully accept emails but then silently
fail to deliver them to recipients?

Thanks,

Phil.

Vincent Van Houtte
_______________________________________________
Roundcube Users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.roundcube.net/mailman/listinfo/users



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Re: RCM appears to be the culprit for non-delivery of some emails to GMail addresses

Philip Rhoades-2
In reply to this post by Vincent Van Houtte
Vincent,


On 2018-09-04 01:27, Vincent Van Houtte wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Something seems off, and I would not suspect RC as the first culprit:


It was only a guess really - I have since posted a note on the GMail
forum to see if anyone there has any ideas too.


> * PEBKAC: if the receiver has set up rules to move certain emails to a
> folder that (s)he didn't check
> * PEBKAC: if the email is in a junkmail folder that wasn't checked


The recipient insists those are not possibilities - and I have confirmed
that by sending to my own GMail account.


> * Qmail bug? Maybe increase log level?


Possible but unlikely - I will check the verboseness options though . .


> * Other bug? At my wife's office, we hit an Evolution bug last year
> that was known for many years, but apparently nobody cared enough to
> fix it until we were hit - the client reported that sending had
> succeeded, but exim never actually sent the email...


Hmm . . sounds like it . . except I am looking at the qmail server logs
which say the mail was delivered - not just the client info.


> In general, I don't believe Gmail would reject email and not warn
> either the sender or the recipient. Did you try the Gmail support
> form? https://support.google.com/mail/troubleshooter/2920052?hl=en


See above.


> If you want, I can give you my gmail.com address (off-list) so you can
> send a few testmails to me. I have 0 mail rules set up and know how to
> check a junkmail folder, so if that can help you solve the issue, I'd
> be more than happy to report to you what I did and did not receive.


Sure - I have checked it with my own GMail account since and the problem
is consistent but I am happy to triple check if you don't mind . .

Thanks!

Phil.


> Kr,
> Vincent
>
>
> On 2018-09-03 10:16, Philip Rhoades wrote:
>> People,
>>
>> This is my setup:
>>
>> Fedora 28 x86_64 workstation + Firefox <=> Fedora 26 x86_64 Server +
>> RCM + QMail + multiple domains <=> Internet
>>
>> I have multiple email addresses for the multiple domains I run web
>> sites and mailing lists for - last night when I mailed to someone from
>> phr AT philiprhoades DOT org to a their GMail address - the mail was
>> not delivered.  I went through a bit of debugging with the recipient
>> today and what I know so far is:
>>
>> - If I use RCM and the phr email address to send mail - even though
>> the QMail logs say that the mail was successfully delivered - it never
>> actually arrives - BUT no bounce message is ever received either.
>>
>> - If I use swaks on the server to send a test email from the phr
>> address to the same person, it is delivered OK.
>>
>> - If I use qmail-inject on the server to send the original email that
>> failed from its Maildir Sent dir to the same person, it is delivered
>> OK.
>>
>> So it looks like something that RCM is adding to the headers is being
>> objected to by the GMail servers or something - of course since
>> nothing is ever actually delivered or bounced, I can't compare the
>> header lines of the failed emails to the successful emails so I can't
>> make any more progress trying to work out what the problem is.
>>
>> I have occasionally had rDNS issues but my diagnostics don't seem to
>> fit that non-delivery issue . . anyone got any ideas?  Is it possible
>> that GMail servers can successfully accept emails but then silently
>> fail to deliver them to recipients?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Phil.
>
> Vincent Van Houtte

--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra  NSW  2794
Australia
E-mail:  [hidden email]
_______________________________________________
Roundcube Users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.roundcube.net/mailman/listinfo/users